2026-07-02 12:00:00 · 0

Heaven Isn't Flat?

Episode Notes

Most of us grow up with a simple heaven framework: you either get in or you don’t. End of story. Cross the finish line, pass through the pearly gates, and from there it’s one big undifferentiated eternity—same heaven, same experience, same everything for everyone who accepted the grace offered through Christ. But what if Scripture won’t actually let us keep it that flat? What if “getting in” is only the beginning, and the Bible’s language about reward, loss, “least” and “greatest” means that what we do now really does shape how we step into forever?In this episode, we’re going to walk straight into that tension: Jesus talking about “least” and “greatest” in the kingdom, Paul warning that some believers will “suffer loss,” and yet the same Scriptures insisting that salvation is a gift, equally shared by all who are in Christ. We ask the unsettling questions: Do my choices now actually echo in eternity? Are there “degrees” of reward and punishment without turning the afterlife into a spiritual caste system? If you’ve ever wondered whether faithfulness still matters once grace is on the table, stay with us—this conversation might permanently reset your assumptions about heaven, hell, and everything in between.

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Meet The Presenters

Dr Matt Jacoby

Matt is the senior pastor at his church in Victoria, Australia, lecturer at the Melbourne School of Theology, an author, a songwriter and, a musician leading the Psalms project band Sons of Korah.

Matt has a doctorate in philosophy and theology from the University of Melbourne, and is the author of the daily Bible reading guide Thrive launched in 2005. Matt's most recent work as an author is his book Deeper Places (Baker Books USA 2013) with an expanded edition released in 2019. In Deeper Places, Matt shares a rich portrait of authentic spirituality. A gifted teacher and Bible scholar, Matthew is invited to speak at conferences and churches where he brings a fresh but foundational perspective to Scripture.

“I do a lot of teaching these days in my various roles but I always see myself more as a learner. I love learning. I enjoy academic learning and because of that I am a perpetual student of many disciplines. But most of all I love learning to live life the way God made me to live it.” MJ

Conal McClure

Conal is our resident over thinker, skeptic and serial doubter. As a critical thinker, he’s not easily satisfied by the easy or comfortable answers to difficult questions. It’s a double edged sword, but useful skill. He’s built a career helping organisations around the world rethink strategy, to ask their own difficult questions to challenge ingrained ideas and think about things differently.

His background also spans IT, marketing, financial and creative services, over 40 years in music as a worship drummer and having a strong interest in theology and philosophy.

“Despite growing up in a Christian family, knowing God and experiencing this reality in very tangible ways all my life, my walk with God to be honest has been a real hot and cold affair for most of my life. Constant questions led me to cycles of doubt that choked my ability to really step into the deeper relationship with God I desired but couldn’t grasp. The struggle has been very real, but God has intervened in a very profound way that’s transformed my whole perspective on faith.” CM

Stu Duncan

Stuart is the owner and director of 5ive, a publisher of Christian music and resources, distributed globally.

Coming from a church pastoral background, and with a Christian faith of many decades, Stuart brings a very practical, application focussed approach to the Thrive Today PodCasts.

“I love seeing God’s word come alive for people as they realise the depth and impact it can have on their lives. My own experience of decades tells me that when I remain engaged in God’s word on a regular – daily – basis, my faith is not just an ‘add-on’ to my life, but the very essence of it, setting the purpose and values around who I am.” Stu

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